Weldon Hurt - Mayor of Abilene, Texas

Weldon Hurt, Mayor of Abilene, does 20 Rapid Fire Questions followed by an in depth discussion with Blaise Regan on:

-the Data Centers, their impact on the community, the challenges they brought and the benefits, the safeguards and agreements on water, sounds, and taxes;

-how Abilene will spend the $20 Million in additional sales tax revenue this year;

-the Abilene Firefighters Association negotiation and what to expect;

-the Housing issues and how long it will last;

-the important but quiet issues not making the headlines;

-and where Abilene will be in 10 years.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Mayor Weldon, Hurt? I guess I should say Hurt too. Darling, I just call you Weldon. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yeah, good to be here. Honored to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

This is gonna be fun. We're gonna jump right into the rapid fire questions, and then we'll get into the more in-depth questions once we do the 20 rapid fire questions. You ready?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

I am ready.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Alright. Number one, what is the best restaurant in Abilene? Oh, that's what is your favorite right now?

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Ladle, land, and cattle. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

What is the um what is the one thing people don't typically know about pest patrol, pest control?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

That uh that we're locally owned, we're not a franchise, been in business 34 years.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

What is the best drink from your mayor's pub crawl?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

That was the uh the drink at Peacock Patio Lounge. Okay, what color was it? It was kind of a penny colada type drink.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah. Um thing that you were most excited about in Abilene? I'm just excited about the growth. For you, are you on movies? Are you a horror, comedy, or action guy?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I'm an action guy. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

What is the longest you've ever let your hair grow out?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Uh past my shoulder blades.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

What is one thing that surprises people about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

That I'm from a a small town, Gusting, Texas, a very small town.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Uh would you live at the beach or the mountain? The mountain. What's your favorite band?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Uh Jim Sadler.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Good answer. What is your proudest moment on council, as a council member or as mayor?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Rebuild IDI.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

The biggest issue facing Abilene right now, in your opinion? Housing. What is the number one complaint you get that actually isn't under the city council's control? Traffic Chick-fil-A. What is the hardest part about being on council?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Trying to educate people.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

What do you do to decompress or stay sane?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

I have uh some acreage out in southwest Taylor County. I go to the land. That'll do it. What time does your alarm go off on a normal morning? I don't set an alarm. I get up about five between five and five fifteen. Out.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Listen. Best advice you've given.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Listen.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

What's a topic you could give a TED talk on as an expert?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Cockroaches.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Uh favorite movie? Uh Twister. And then we'll end on an easy one. Best NFL football team. Dallas Cowboys. Easy answer and the right answer. Good job. Only one has gotten that wrong. So good job. All right. So that wasn't too bad. Uh that wraps up the rapid fire questions. Now we'll get into the to the more in-depth issues and and responses. Um so for those that don't know, just to give you kind of a little, and we'll put it up in the in the post as well, but um you are now officially re-elected for your second term as mayor of Abilene, Texas, and you served as city councilman before that for was it six years? Yeah, two terms, six years. Two terms, and this is your second year as mayor or second term as mayor. Um, and then that only pays a dollar a year. A lot of people don't realize that. And so your um paying job is that you were the uh owner of pest patrol, and some people may have seen the yellow trucks. Uh, you know, they're easy to miss, I'm sure. Um, so um that kind of gives people uh a little background on you. Um so some people don't realize that I have already rolled off of city council, and so I still get the questions and the complaints and the whatnot from city council. So for those listening, I have rolled off. I think I'm almost a month out.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

You probably always will. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

And I don't bite it most of the time, and now it's nice to be able to just blame city council for everything. Absolutely. It rained too hard, and I said that's probably city council's fault. Exactly. Uh so um one thing that I do before we get into it, um uh so serving on council, um, a lot of people would think that you and I um, oh, is Weldon mad at you, or you were mad at Weldon because we would, you know, uh uh discuss things in council meeting. And one thing that I always love, I am a huge fan of you, and I thought we always had a great relationship, and I felt like we always complimented each other really well, both both personally but also professionally. And so for those out there listening, if you think at least I can't speak for you, but for me, I only have love for you and massive amount of respect for you. And so anytime we had a a discussion where it got heated, I think in my memory there was only one in public and then one in chambers. And I was always very impressed that we could have a good debate and good discussion, and then sh that was, you know, we we we left it at the door basically, and and it was a purely um for the city, and then it was it never translated into personal uh issues or animosity or anything. I was across the entire city council. So I always respected that about you running the you know the entire council that way. Um, but then how everyone else always uh seemed to handle that. And there were there were certainly two two come to mind where um there were issues not not just with you but uh with others, but but I think that's that's natural, but I always wanted to clear that up. No, you may see us um you know discussing things at council, but it doesn't ever translate into personal animosity or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Right. There there is no personal animosity, and you have to leave. If you did have personal feelings, those have to be left, like you said, at the door when we come out, we're still friends. We're we're we were always wanting to do what was best for the city in our opinion. And so, you know, a difference of opinions helps because that creates discussion. And we've had some really, really good discussions, and I always appreciated those. Um you were very good about bringing a lot of things to light that needed to be brought to light. And so we did have we did have discussions, but there was never any animosity, and you're right. When when we left the room, I I see you out, you know, somewhere in public and we're friends.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, yeah, which is great. And I I will say visiting with other councils, uh, even in in the big country and and outside, that is not always the case. You see it, you see it, you know, on the state and and federal level, but even on a local level, that's not always the case, and that's a reflection, I think, on on you and your personnel and how you ran uh the the council as mayor. Um, but I think it's also just the guys that are on the council going, hey, we know our role and what we need to do here, and it doesn't really affect the personal relationship. So I was always very um very happy to serve, but also that is one thing that I will miss is just the camaraderie of being a group of seven working towards you know a good goal of making Appling better. So with that being said, let's jump into some of the issues. So we'll um we'll jump into the big one. I've I've listened to some podcasts, and they're um there's a lot of discussion about data centers, and I know we had a lot of discussion about data centers on on the council. And one thing is just getting the getting the word out, explaining um the pros and cons and mainly the benefits. There's always going to be ones that complain, but it's also getting the the positives out there. And so on the data center, um what's starting off with just kind of an overview, um, how do you feel like the the data centers have impacted Abling, kind of the good and the bad, and what what city council's dealing with right now?

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Well, I I think the good, most of the good is still yet to come. I mean, there there is some some uh some tax base that we're already seeing uh that is gonna be good for the city. Uh you know, the the cons we know it's construction. Everything that goes with construction, because that's affected housing, it's affected our traffic, it's affected our roads. So this is all short term, and I know people get tired of hearing that well, it's short term. Well, it will. It'll this we'll get past the construction, things will be fine. But in in the long run, it's going to create jobs, it's going to strengthen our tax base for a long time. Uh so you know, if abiline doesn't keep growing, then we're going backwards. And so this is just an opportunity for us to continue to grow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Well, and one thing that I uh try to remind people is, you know, we this kind of started for us back in 2022, 23-ish, and into early 24. At that time, there were no data centers in West Texas, to my knowledge. We were kind of the the first one, um, you know, uh for the most part in West Texas. Now, since then, obviously they've ballooned all over the place, but when this first started, we were the only one. And I think the, you know, for those that have kind of paid attention, the pros and cons, they were going to move here regardless. And so the question for us is do we want them in city limits where we get additional tax revenue, or do we say no and they just jump over the line and still build it, but we as a city don't get tax revenue. And so I think people forget that. And and the other thing that people forget is we don't typically have control of whether a private enterprise can open at all. You know, yes, they have to zone properly, but in general, a business, whether you're a duplex, whether you're a a feed store or a Walmart, you know, that's a business is business. This is America. And so I do look back and go, man, we were at the we were starting this back when there were no data centers. Now, um, I think where we and we had no way of knowing this, in my opinion, but the the additional data centers that came outside of our control, I think, is really where some of the negatives have really hit us. And um it's something that we have to deal with, but it's also a lot like the Shackelford one or the ones up in Haskell or Sweetwater. We don't have any control over that as a city, but we're still dealing with the knock-on effects that that that came later. How do you as mayor kind of deal with those? Those are some pretty big issues, but they're not ones that the city can control or the city of Abilant can control. How do you how do you explain that to people, but also kind of what's the what's your thinking about that?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Well, you you know, are we gonna be a conservative West Texas city? You know, are we going to, you know, honor people's rights that own property? Because you're right. When they buy the property and and pay people for that property, those people willingly sold their property for a good price for them to build that facility. Uh they voluntarily annexed into the city of Abilene. Therefore, we gave the abatements, but but there was no tax money before that. So I they I really try to talk to people about, you know, should we be trying to infringe on property owner rights? You know, that's the big one to me. If I have the land and someone approaches me, I I have the you know ability to either sell it or not sell it. And if they make me an offer I can't refuse, you know, monetarily, uh, I think that's their right to do that. And so just saying that we shouldn't let data centers come, well, if you use a phone or anything, anything, you know, data's important. And so these data centers have to be built to keep up with technology that everybody uses. So I I think that we should be a little bit more excited that they chose Abilene. Uh and and you know, we didn't, we never could have imagined the scale of how big this was. You know, we were told it was big, but now that you go out there and see it, we never could have imagined that. And so, and now we are the hub of data centers. And so the effects that you're talking about, it still affects our housing, it affects our traffic. It also affects our sales tax increase. Yeah. Uh, you know, our restaurants are hotels, and I understand the the the price for hotels, et cetera, is high. And people, you know, they talk to us all the time, and I'm sure you hear this wanting us to control hotel prices. That's still private property. And and it's supply and demand, and it is a boom, and we're in the bubble, and once the boom goes down, the bubble will come down and those prices will come down. Uh, you know, we are we do have a lot of new housing being built. Uh it's not going to be fast enough to catch up with the bubble, but I think after the bubble goes away, it it should kind of coincide with our dice expansion and and that. So really us just helping with developers on on new housing, you know, any way that we can, our new interactive map uh that shows developable property. Uh and you know, our new budget, which should call for more staff to help expedite some of these developers. So, you know, the city, we are trying to do what we can do. Now, you've you've been in municipal government also. It doesn't move as fast as you and I like it. But that's just the way it is. That's also for the protection of our citizens. So we're doing what we can as fast as we can. Uh, but once again, and and I I do, I get lots of pushback on that. Well, you should have you should have planned. Well, it's hard to plan on something that no one's ever done before.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah. And that the city of Abilene didn't have control of. We don't have control of the Shackelford data center that they built or not. We weren't in those discussions. Haskell, Sweetwater, all these knock-on uh data centers, not not under our control. So it's hard to plan for things that we didn't even know were coming. Um, what do you you kind of mentioned the the housing bubble. What do you tell uh renters out there as far as giving them uh at least some peace of mind or at least a projection on, hey, yeah, we're we're helping with supply of housing. We can't, you know, and we don't want to go in and do price control or rent control or anything like that. But based on, you know, developers and housing, et cetera, uh supply is increasing. We expect that the rental prices will hopefully alleviate or that bubble will kind of dissipate a little bit. Do you tell them a year, three years, five years? Like what's it just in your personal opinion, kind of the horizon that renters can can look forward to?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

I think you're gonna see some considerable movement in about 18 months. Uh, you know, closer to the end of 2027, uh, I think the completion of of our data center on construction should be, you know, getting close to at that time. That's gonna help a lot. Um Shackerford County, you know, it's a year and a half behind on on their completion. But uh with the amount of of new rentals that are being built and with the bubble going down, I think we will see some relief in about 18 months. That's still a long time.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

But well, and the other thing that that we have to kind of factor in is the the base construction, Dice Air Force Base doing the construction. That's gonna be uh a lot of um similar, if not the same, guys that are on, let's say, phase two out at Lanceum are gonna shift over or maybe hold whole different crews. But there's still going to be that demand for construction. And I say that in a good way, in that you're not gonna suddenly be down 7,000 or 10,000 workers. It's gonna be no that demand, maybe a little less, but it's still gonna sustain our economy. Uh and so one thing that I like to point out is you know, the restaurants and the the bar owners and the retail, and you know, we all know about the hotels, you know, doing well, but it's across the board retail, uh, small business owners are doing really well, and people forget, I think it was my would have been early 2024, that when our sales tax uh I won't say crash, but they dipped hard. Was it early? I think it was early 2024. And we had to do a hiring freeze. That's when we had to combine the construction of the two rec centers in order to save money there. Like our our budget was in, was in some some tight uh spots there. And if the that's because the sales tax dipped, and it wasn't just us, but it was across the state. And so people forget Abilene was struggling hard and and uh businesses were struggling hard. And so the data center construction was a real lifeline. People forget that now because all they're the traffic or the the hotel prices, but it, you know, I tell people it is a it has been a lifeline to our economy, and hopefully, you know, it's it's a bubble that we can manage that doesn't bust, that it just kind of leads us to a next level and sustainable level. But we we needed that. People forget it two, two and a half years ago, we were we were not headed in a good direction as far as uh retail and sales, and so it's been a nice, a nice boom that you got to remind people uh about that. Um on Rebuild Abbey, um I I try to try to get the word out, but um you want to talk a little bit about Rebuild Abbey?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, we can do that. Um, you know, that's a program that we started really about the time that you had come on. And uh and it's where we incentivize builders and developers to build in the older interior of Abilene. Uh there's you know some maps, uh some boundaries to do that. So, you know, it's it's things like waiving fees, uh, offering roll-offs, uh just you know, upfront upfront cost savings, and then a cash incentive at the end of the project when they sell the home and it is sold to an individual as a homeowner, so you know, homestead. And so that's the whole incentive of this is not to build rentals inside of town to incentivize that. It's to incentivize home ownership in these older areas of town because nothing brings more pride and dignity. And you see these streets where where some of these homes have been built, there may be one or two on the street, you start seeing the whole street starting to clean up. Yeah, people start taking the trash out of their front yard, they start painting their exterior, so it's bringing a lot of pride and dignity back to these neighborhoods, and that and that's the go, home ownership and revitalize these older neighborhoods.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

And not to build mega mansions. You know, we capped it at 203,000, I think. And so it's a good way to to inject and encourage those developers on the outside of town to go, hey, take a look at the interior and let's let's revitalize some of this. Um and I think we would typically set aside a million dollars every year for that. Uh you guys just had your budget discussion, what, two weeks ago, I think? Yes. Is that the thinking moving forward? Uh another million?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Another million, and and it's actually uh it's not an MIP item, it is a budgeted item now. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Oh, very good. Okay. Um well, and that kind of dovetails into the um the budget discussion. And so I get I have gotten several questions over the last few weeks about this, and again, I tell them I'm not on the council anymore. I still pay attention, but I'm not up there. Uh I direct them to Jay Patterson. So um the roughly you guys got uh in say additional sales tax uh this year was a roughly an additional 20 million. Um for the for the residents out there, um, you know, our our total budget is you know around 340 million, 200 million of that is is water and sewage and like kind of fixed revenue costs. So we kind of I kind of mentally put that aside. Really our I always called it our discretionary budget-ish with police, fire, parks, all the departments is around 140 million, I believe. So a 20 million additional bump in that is a pretty good size. And that's that's based on you know construction of the the data centers and and these kind of big projects. And so from 2024 to 2026, such a massive difference from yeah, we're having to hiring freeze, we're having to cut costs, we're having to really, you know, uh, I think Robert Hanna said at the time, there wasn't any meat left on the bone. We had cut it down to the bone, the budget. And so to go from from that to uh 20 million is a reflection of a lot of the the good jobs and good businesses that that I think council and DCOA and and all the others involved have brought here. And so now it's it's kind of a good problem to have 20 million, um, a $20 million um uh additional sales tax. For the listeners out there, what is council's kind of general takeaway or direction to staff of what to do with the 20 million?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Well, you know, we we don't know how this is gonna fluctuate year to year on this increase. And so what you want to do is, and people also don't understand, yes, I wish we could put that in savings. We can't. This is a one-time spend. It's you know, we have to make our budget, we have to spend that money. That's the state guidelines. So we have to spend the money. So we need to spend the money wisely. What you don't want to do is something because it's like a bonus almost, like if you have a bonus salary, well, you don't go out and finance a car with that bonus and get recurring income. So we don't want to spend this money and do projects that would be recurring income. So I think fixing a lot of our older infrastructure, a lot of things that need to be fixed, I think this is a good time and that would be a good spend on this. Uh the fireman's pension fund, uh, you know, injecting quite a bit into that to try to get that recovered uh would be a wise spend instead of put uh making COs to do that. So it's I mean, I'm getting I'm getting lots of calls on suggestions on what to do with this money, and a lot of it's fun stuff. I really think we need to not really look at the fun stuff and take care of what needs to be taken care of, the neglected neglected things. And so personally, that's where I would lean toward is uh what's been neglected, what needs to be fixed, what's infrastructure that needs to be done, and and really look at that. That way.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

So putting pension aside for a second, the when you say infrastructure, um, for those residents out there, any specific items does that mean, oh, he he means roads. Oh, we're gonna pay more roads, or does does that mean the water pipes under the roads that we're never gonna see but we need to fix, or is that when when you and council talk about infrastructure, it's a broad care category, but just for you, what are like one or two things that go, these are some infrastructure projects that we've got to address?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

You know, uh I think uh you know, the the water pipes and the search pipes that we don't see, yes, that would be wonderful to do that. And we do, you know, when we redo roads and redo areas, we we do we take care of that. Uh and that's probably a project that you know really needs to be done. But I I'd like to also see some high impact, some uh some roads, maybe Grape Street, some areas like that. You know, pick a road that needs to be fixed, do that. Um, we know we have some horrible aging restrooms in some of our parks. So fixing that, that's not building a new park, okay? These are already things that we need to maintain. So some upgrades to some of our, you know, uh parks, things like that, high visible streets, um, you know, aging facilities, uh, you know, what you know, just do an evaluation of some of our facilities is where this needs to be done. You know, we can put it toward our uh, you know, our our water treatment plants that have to have this new generation, gas generation, you know, the added costs that we have to that. So I I think there's an array of things that can still be visible to the public, but are they still very needed? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Uh and this I I can't remember if we talked about it before I rolled off or not, but I I get this question a lot of uh do we know if the um what are they called, the the potbelly trucks that are doing all the dirt moving for the construction, et cetera, are we seeing more roads torn up, or is that just people complaining to complain? Do we know yet?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Well I think uh the majority of the roads that are being torn up are are state highways. Uh, you know, for sure. Uh now, right around the data centers, yes. You know, we we know Shirley Road, you know, Hayter Road, some of those roads out there, uh that and part of them that are in the city limits uh are gonna have to be rebuilt. Uh and we also know that Caruso has made a commitment to help with that rehabilitation on those. Now we're not gonna build superhighways out there, but we're gonna build them back to the standard that they were, a nice paved road. So um so yes, you know, we know that there are some in the city that are gonna have to be done, but there's no sense in rebuilding them right now. We need to wait till the construction's over. Um same way with Tex Dot, you know, they're that they know that they're gonna have to be doing a lot of repair too. So and you know, when this the construction will slow down, but I mean though you're those material trucks, I mean, yeah, they do, they were on the roads a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and on the construction, not just the data centers, but also the uh, you know, we had the discussion on the Elmdale uh RV, I think it was a thousand spot RV park on Elmdale. And you know, the discussion with that, with the council and the community and with the developer eventually led to, I think, a lot of of um not concessions from the developer, but uh step ups from the developer. Okay, we'll fix that, we'll do this, we'll help with the road, we'll do a traffic study. And I think that's something that I was very proud of is and often goes missed, I think, in the general public who isn't watching every city council meeting, is there are these discussions happening, whether it's the Elmdale or especially with the data centers, having those discussions um where, hey, what's the what's gonna, you know, what are the air quality requirements, what are the water uh requirements, what are the um, yes, the tax abatements get the headlines, but it's also, you know, the sound uh sound requirements. We had the, you know, the uh decibel um decibel requirements. So a lot of these things are um discussed and worked out in agreements and all that, but I think they're by nature either done in economic agreements or they're done, but people who aren't watching the meetings aren't catching it. What do you say to those out there that uh you know the narrative for some is well uh the cities or the counties just get steamrolled, right? These data centers come in and they just do whatever they want and and council doesn't push back or county uh county commissioners don't push back. How do you tell people, no, this is actually how how it all happened and and how we protected uh the city or the county as as a as an official? What what do you what do you take to that, say to that narrative?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Well, and and I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of people they're saying out that these were our darkroom, you know, backroom deals that we did privately. All of these, the tax abatements, all the deals that were done were done in council meetings. And maybe people don't watch council meetings, but they can go back and see that. You know, it is public. You can't force people to watch them. But all the questions are asked. And you know, some of these smaller counties, you know, they need to ask the questions too, and you get calls from them. I get calls from county commissioners. Um, and and you know, I tell them the construction is horrible. That's the worst part of it. But they're gonna help you rebuild your roads to better than they were, they're gonna upgrade your water systems, and nobody else is coming into your community to community to revitalize it. Yeah, and this is an opportunity, you know. Farming and ranching, I love agriculture. You know, it's in my veins. I grew up on a peanut farm. But it's hard to make a living at that nowadays, and and so, you know, the oil field, we still have a lot of fossil fuels in our area, but there's no more booms here, and we know that. So this is the opportunity that we have. But, you know, we did ask questions about power and about water and about noise, and and our questions were always answered. And and on the water use, I'm glad you brought that up. And and I'm not gonna take credit for this. This is Emily Crawford's idea, but she's gonna start doing a quarterly report on water use by the data center.

unknown 28:21

I like it.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

And so, you know, we really can't do an energy use because we're not the energy provider, but we can do water use. So we'll let the public know how much water use is out there. So, you know, you know, a lot of it we get talk about not being transparent. Well, I don't know how to be transparent. When I mean we we say everything in council meetings, yeah. And that's the opportunity for people to see, and a lot of people, you know, don't take time to watch it, but there were no backroom deals. And you know, uh and I I know you didn't get your pockets lined. I still get a dollar a year. Yeah. I I got zero kickback on any of these, and so you know, we hear that a lot, and that just doesn't happen. Yeah, you know, and we make these deals in the council chambers.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah, yeah, in public, voting in public. Voting in public. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's frustrating uh when when you hear that and you go, well, when was the last time before this issue that you attended a city council meeting? Probably never. Uh so that is frustrating, but but I do have to remind myself it is also um, you know, important to get the information out because not everyone does have time. You know, a lot of people, uh especially when I hear the the negatives of oh, what the what the data centers have brought, the traffic or whatever. And it seems to only be negatives or complaints out there, I go, well, that's probably because the ones that are that are benefiting from this, the restaurant owners, the bar owners, the hotel owners, the retail owners, they're too busy running their business and doing well for, you know, for a change that they don't have time really to go up and and and you know, spout all the praises of the good things. And so I think that is something we have to remember is there's a there's a quiet, silent majority out there that is benefiting from this. And and that's really why we were so excited to bring this project here.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

Well, and and you know, you like you had said earlier, you know, you look at 2024, would I rather see an increase in traffic short term, or would I rather see businesses closing? And so, you know, if businesses start closing, they employ less people here locally. Yeah, and so this is good for our local economy. I understand there are cons that come with construction. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah. I'd rather have people complaining here than moving away and it just be quiet, and then you go, well, that was it. Yeah, we had our shot. Um, so on the uh, you know, the there's there have been some, you know, whether it's whether it's increased traffic, which hey, you're gonna have. Um housing, I think, has been the constant theme frustration, whether it's the hotel on the housing side or the the rentals, I think are the the ones that have really, you know, taken a hit. And so we've uh we did the rebuild abbey program. It wasn't necessarily in um answer to the data center, but it really timed out well. Um and then uh I think it was Matthew Dane of the water department had the idea, I think it was during our strategic um meeting back in January, maybe, had the idea of doing the map with all the properties that are ready to go for utilities to make it easier and faster for developers. And so they pushed that out. I know you and Emily talked about it to the Home Builders Association, so that went that went over really well. Um, and also being a little bit more, let's say, aggressive on the zoning for uh for housing. Uh one thing over the last I'd say a week or so that I've been getting a lot of people, even people who know that I'm not on the council have been have been blowing blowing my phone up on this one. Um the the I think there were two proposals uh in front of council, maybe at the last meeting dealing with housing. I think it was down on the far south side um for uh forty maybe forty-one houses or something like that, and then four or eight uh town homes on Buffalo Gap. And the council, I think it was a split vote. Jay abstained and it was three versus three. Uh, and so the motion didn't pass on that was on the town homes. I don't know. That was the town homes on Buffalo Gap Road. Uh-huh. Uh and then and then there was no motion made to support on the Pebble Beach one, the 41 homes down far south. Um, and the uh what I'm kind of hearing out there is, oh well, the council says, you know, the city says, oh, it's it's we need more housing, but just not when it affects certain people. I said, uh I know how I respond to that, but um how do you respond to that where you know both you and I and the entire council the last year, year and a half have been pushing for more housing. And then when something like this kind of happens, it it does kind of I'm I'm sure there were good reasons there, but it does kind of put the wrong taste in people's mouth, going, oh well, that's that's what how city council really votes. How do you how do you kind of respond to that? Or what do you tell people on that?

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Well, yeah, you know, there are two different circumstances. The Pebble Beach uh neighborhood, uh it it is already zoned for RSA, so it's already zoned for 28 units. And so they can build 28 sellable homes there at this time. And what that was gonna do is put 50-foot lot lines to to create 41 homes, you know, 11 more. Uh, and you're gonna and it's a one-way in, one way out. So you're gonna be driving through a neighborhood of RS8 and then sticking this back there. Uh, it to me it didn't fit uh where it was. The uh, you know, every single person in the neighborhood, except for the one that worked for the city, signed the petition. Um, you know, we had three pages of people that live in that area that that signed the petition. So, you know I'm all for you know building more housing. And so I just I was for keeping that the way it was. So really, we didn't vote to to not let housing be there. We just voted against the increase amount, which was smaller lots. So there's still a potential for 28. Uh on the other issue on Buffalo Gap Road, I was actually, and you know what when when something is not voted for by council, yes, no, I'm not one to really ever go back and say, well, I was for that, but it's voted on. But anyway, I will I was I was for that particular townhome project. Uh I think the way they had it designed, being right on Buffalo Gap Road, was going to be next to a neighborhood office. That whole area of Buffalo Gap Road is becoming commercial. It left the existing home to buffer the neighborhood. I personally thought it was a good idea. Uh, but uh councilman Patterson had to abstain, so it was a 3-3 vote. Uh therefore it didn't pass. And you know, when that happens, I just I accept council's decision. I personally thought it was a good use of the property. Some councilmen didn't didn't think so. So but just in that area, I I really thought it would have been a great use.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

And is there for those developers out there, whether they're doing neighborhoods, you know, or 50 homes, 200 homes, or or town, you know, town homes like this, if there's other developers out there, you know, clearly f following these kind of votes closely, um, what what should they take away from this? Ago and what if I'm a developer like that, what do I need to be doing differently? Or or is there a lesson to be taken away from those votes?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Well, I th I think you know, we need housing now, but that housing is gonna be there in 20 years. And so we're making decisions now that are gonna affect us 20 years later. What does that do to the effect of the neighborhood in 20 years? Um, you know, kind of I had some realtors reach out to me and they said, look, we're not going on the record. The board of realtors is not gonna take a stance on this. But they said it would affect the sale of existing homes in that neighborhood in the future. And, you know, I I I take all the advice, you know, and so you know, you take all that into account. And uh so I I think that is one thing that we do have to look at. We desperately need housing, but what is it gonna be effects of the neighborhood in the future?

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and it's not something that's gonna be decided on, you know, in the next year or so. I think uh I would agree. What I've been telling people is a year and a half uh to two years, I think, is when we'll start to level off and hopefully rental prices, you know, kind of ease up. Um, but I think we're still gonna have sustained growth, sustained demand for the next, you know, four, five, six, seven years. And so in a good way, in a healthy way. And that's that's exactly what we want, in my opinion. Um, on uh this is uh it was getting a lot of attention. Um I asked uh some people, oh, you know, I was having you on the show, you know, what what uh any questions you'd like to ask? And and a lot of them were on were on housing. Um and some of these other further issue uh further questions are are ones that I received. But on uh the fire and the firemen, and you mentioned the pension. Um obviously I was on council through all of this, so I'm very, you know, aware. So I'm asking the question, but I'm but I'm also very aware of it. But for the listeners out there, um uh what do you uh what are your thoughts moving forward on um uh the fire department and the city um situation and and kind of uh where where we're headed and and what do you say, what do you say to people about that?

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Well, we we have to have a way to negotiate salaries and pay with our firemen. Um and meet and confer uh didn't work this last time. And so FIRE has chosen to go to the ballot for collective bargaining. Uh so what I tell people is it'll have to go to the vote, it'll have to pass. So we first of all we have to wait and see. We have to wait and see if they get their signatures, we have to wait and see if it gets on the ballot, we have to wait and see if it passes. And if it does, that's how we're going to negotiate with them. And so we have to embrace that. Uh, you know, we we can't be negative about it, so you know, so we've actually started, you know, looking more into how collective bargaining works and and you know, um working with other cities and other attorneys so that you know we're we're making sure we're doing the right things. First and foremost, we want to take care of our firefighters. And and I'm not that I know this is not the time to do it, but I just I want people to know the firemen were never offered a pay cut. They were offered a guaranteed pay raise. Uh it wasn't what they wanted. And so uh that's the reason that we couldn't come together on Meet and Confer. And uh, you know, I understand the city manager made that deal, but it was our decision to approve the deal. And so, like I said, you were on council, so we we're not trying to cut fire pay or be detrimental to our firemen at all. But we also have to take care of another thousand or thousand to eleven hundred employees in the city of Abilene, also. And we want everyone to be treated fair. So, with this new way uh of finding agreement, like I say, we're gonna embrace it. Uh we're gonna work with our firemen uh and their association uh to get the best agreement for them that works for our citizens and get everyone else up everyone else paid also.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

So um uh, you know, if you're in if you're in government really at any level, it is it is an ongoing series of trying to solve problems. Like you never get to the top of the hill, right? There's never like okay, we solved all the problems of the city. Now we don't have to do anything for the next year. It is always you hopefully fix a problem, but there's four others that you now need to fix. And once you fix those four, if you do, you still have ten more to go. So it's it's a constant um fixing of problems. And I think um some people don't realize that. Uh, and some people do a phenomenal job at it. They're just wired to they don't get beaten down by it, or if they do, they know how to kind of um uh manage it, but they they are wired to solve problems. And, you know, people like Emily, uh our city manager, and and and Robert, you know, they're I think they're just people wired to solve problems, and they're good about managing both their own potential burnout, but also dealing with people in the day-to-day, because they're it's kind of like uh working in an airline loss claim, you know, department. You're just getting people on the worst day dealing with, you know, lost luggage. And so that's kind of what what city council uh deals with, and so a lot of the times it's just issues that are headlines or top of the issue or top of the complaint pile, and you and you find that 90% of your time is devoted to those problems, right? The the fires. But what are some issues that maybe you came into council or or when you have a little bit more downtime to go, all right, I'm not addressing the fire issue, I'm I'm not having to think on the housing issue or the data center issue. These are some other, this is another issue that, man, I'm I'm really passionate about, or I'd love for us to be able to devote some resources or time or think through some solutions, but it doesn't get the press or it doesn't get the headline to the discussion that that that you uh would love for it to have. What are you kind of is there a quiet issue out there that you are very passionate about?

SPEAKER_00 41:44

You know, it there really is, and thanks for bringing that up. It it's kind of like exactly what we're doing right here, and that's public information. And so I would like to see Mari and her crew, and they are working on it, they're to start doing some podcasts, but we have to have a way of getting news out in our city, especially our positive news, and about what's going on. And of course, everybody wants to say, well, we didn't know, we didn't know. You know, are there other avenues that we could do with with more podcasts, with more information, with our own news station, you know, in some ways. So I'm I'm kind of adamant about ha public information. You know, you'd come up with some ideas on the agenda and an easier read, an easier to read agenda. Just always constantly looking for those ideas because when I grew up, we had three stations of news and a newspaper. And and that you that's the way you got your news, and it was pretty accurate. Uh, you know, the majority of our news now comes from social media, which is not accurate all the time. Not saying it's not accurate, but all the time. So there's just not a centralized place to get information out. And so just more things like this, like what you're doing, uh, and things like that in the city. So, you know, just more public information that way.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Uh yeah. One one thing, and I I can't remember if I mentioned this to the other council members or not, but there was there was one thing um that a buddy was uh we were talking uh and he was researching roads and how much we spend on roads per mile versus San Angelo, uh Lubbock, and Midland, I think. And he was using AI, ChatGPT or one of the AIs, and he was doing comparisons between Abilene and those three cities, and the uh ChatGPT kept coming back and saying that out of the four cities, Abilene was the most transparent and open about its cost, that it could do a more uh accurate analysis of the cost per road to repave than any of the other four cities. And so it constantly kept saying, and I don't think it was just stroking the ego or knew that he was here in Abilene, um, but it was it was very encouraging to see that based on Our disclosures and and maybe it's a bond requirement. I don't know, because you know, uh for for bonds, maybe we have to disclose more. But I think it's really just we have taken uh that approach of no, we're going to be more transparent and try to get the information out and make the efforts compared to some of those other cities. And that was really cool to see, as frustrating as it is, uh, you know, if it's your issue or there's just some people out there that are just frustrated, you know, enough is never enough. But it was kind of cool to see that AI said, hey, Appleine's most transparent out of those four cities. I said, okay, we're doing something all right.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

If AI likes us, all right. Yeah. Yeah, that's that is neat. And you know, the the other thing that we can work on is is relations within our departments, within our employees, and something that, you know, Emily and I have talked about is if if I work for street maintenance and and I see a water leak, shouldn't I be reporting that? Or if if I work for uh you know the health department and I see a sign ran over, you know, I can see I can see click fix too. So we have several hundred vehicles around. And so I would like to see us working as one. You know, one I don't want to hear it's not my department. We all work for the city of Abilene. We want Abilene to be a better place. Yeah. And so during our downtime, our departments work into better, interrelationships within our departments. Uh I know you don't want to mingle departments, but then again, they can still work together. Yeah. And so just in the downtime, that that's something you can always strive for and always look for ways that we can do things better.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Yeah. Uh two or so more questions. One, uh, this one I know you've gotten because you've you've talked about it before. Um what can we do? What are we doing to help clean up the image of Abilene physically, you know, yards or or violations? Um I know that's been something you've been passionate about. And so just kind of wanted to give the opportunity to, I know there's frustrations out there. Uh what do you say to those people that, yeah, how do we oh my neighbor's been, you know, trash in his yard for five years and nothing's being done, or the trash in the street, or whatever their their complaint is about the physical image of Abilene. Uh what do you say to them?

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Well, you know, first of all, I I tell them to email me directly. Give give me the situation behind it. Uh I do get flustered, you know, with our code compliance. I think our code compliance does a great job. I'm I'm not picking on code compliance. But just sometimes things happen, we'll get something cleaned up, and then three months later it's the same thing. So that we have to have those ones on the radar that are repeat offenders. Uh so you know, I just encourage people to reach out, send me emails, and send me pictures, send me all the information. And and then you know how it works. And we start at the top and work down. And so to try to get some of these things resolved a little quicker, you know, there's been a few locations in town that have just drove me crazy because it just seemed like, and I know there's a process and there's a legal process, and we have ordinances and and the process of how it has to be done, but uh, you know, that that just has to be done for our city to look better. If we're going to do rebuild ABI and there's a house next to it that don't need to be there, then we need to take care of that.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

Yeah. What's uh, you know, we talked about oh, it's just a uh a litany of of issues that you have to solve, basically, in in government. Um and sometimes we forget to celebrate the wins because we're already on to the next problem or we're already hearing about it. But what's a what's been a win for you, or what's an issue that, you know, throughout your time on council and and as mayor, what's an issue that like kind of looking back, you go, man, that was something that we we actually fixed. Maybe it got pressed, maybe it didn't, but that was kind of a proud moment of man, that was something that that we as council and and city government fixed and it felt good.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Well, I I I I think there's always the physical things, you know, that we look at, you know, there's the expansion, the rec centers, you know, those are the feel-good things. Um but just you know, you and I were both kind of uh overwhelmed or excited to hear when our crime numbers came back. Yeah. You know, and so, you know, we have a new police chief. Well, I say he's new, he's been there what, you know, over a year now. And people say, Well, I don't ever hear anything from him. Well, he's quietly getting things done. And I and I think that's just one little win. He has a department that the morale is good. Uh, and so, you know, we probably don't tell him enough kudos, and it's just because he's quiet. So, you know, when our we need to be celebrating that. Our our crime statistics have gone down, you know. And so just little things like that, we just don't celebrate the wins enough. And you're right. But you know, that to know that the citizens were on board on this new airport project, you know, what that's gonna do for the future of abling. Um, it's just just the things that are getting better in our city that that give you more peace of mind to to live here.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

Yeah. I'd like to end on you can you can kind of take this in whatever direction you want, but I'd like to end on uh I think one of the I think I asked the the city council candidates this question. Um a lot of progress, a lot of big developments. We're going through some growing pains, you know, whether it's traffic or or infrastructure, et cetera. Um but I think the the work and the decisions have all been, all right, we want to make Abilene better, a better city, right? What does that in kind of tangible in a tangible way, what does that look like for you in 10 years? You you know, you're kind of I think I I I think I talked about in the last meeting, we're kind of, you know, you go through the forest and you're getting hit with the with the branches of issues every day and you kind of lose track of, well, where are we shooting for? So for you, you know, in in 10 years, all the work, all the decisions, all the the stuff that we're going through, good and bad right now, what would you like to see Abilene be in 10 years, kind of in in tangible results, not just saying, oh, it would be a better city, but like what does that mean for you? Because I think a lot of residents take their vision and where we're headed from from you and council. Where do you want us to be in 10 years?

SPEAKER_00 50:22

Well, I think we're gonna see an additional 7,500 single-family homes, uh, probably an additional three to four thousand new rental units. Uh, you're gonna see that the cost of housing more on the state average. Uh you're gonna see an increase of population from now to then of about 30,000 people. Uh probably six to ten thousand of that, maybe even be DIES personnel. Uh it's gonna be neat to see B-21s flying over Abilene. Uh, and a lot of people may not know, but as the B-21 transitions into service, all of the B-1s will be restationed in Abilene. So all the B-1s will be in Abilene. So that mission, you know, DIES Air Force Base is always gonna have a mission. And, you know, to have that continued uh, you know, relationship is so important and so vital. Um I see our DCOA could continue to hit home runs. It's kind of like, well, where are we gonna put all these people? Well, we've done it so far. It's it's been a little rough recently, but you know, and the diversif the diversification that DCOA on these job creations that they're doing is is really phenomenal. And not only just new businesses, but existing businesses that they're helping out with too. So our DCOA is doing a great job. Uh our Chamber of Commerce working with businesses. Uh, we want to continue to make sure that you know what that they're working in a way that's helping businesses. Our Chamber of Commerce, our military fares, we it couldn't be a more vital time for us to have relations with our with our military right now with all these transitions that are happening, uh, to assure them, you know, to continue to give them the correct numbers on housing. They know that we're in a housing crunch. And you know, they have to have a place to house these airmen. So, you know, I think all that will be way better off, way close more close to being solved, uh, the housing issue. Uh, we're going to continue to look for water. I think we'll have our West Texas Coalition water wrapped up by then. So the additional water that uh we'll take you know, Midlands portions of ivy. Uh, and you know, we can still pull water from from PK. Uh one of the big questions that you and I both get is water still. Uh before we pull water from Possum Kingdom right now, we're only using about 60% of our total capacity of water that we have available right now. So that's another 8 million gallons a day when that comes online. And then about 8.5 to 9 million gallons out of the West Texas Water Coalition. So we're we're we're only using 60% of our capacity now, and we're gonna add an additional 60%, should have us good for the next 30 years. Now we still want to continue to look for water sources. Uh and so, you know, uh Cedar Ridge, I think we're gonna have some discussion about that pretty soon. Um you know, will will it will it ever happen? We really don't know. That you know, that's a big battle with the state. You well know where we're at on that. We've done all we can do. Uh we we just can't force that, especially when it comes to state and federal government, that when you talk about slow progress. And so uh if that will ever happen, but you know, do we need to be working with Senator Senator Charles Perry about you know piping water from the coast back here? Uh uh, is that a feasible idea? Uh that would be a lot of state money to help on that. But if is that an idea that we need to embrace with him to see if we can get water. So future's water, you know that, we know that. Uh I see the quality of life it's already improving. You know, our downtown, our south side, or our north side is growing. Yeah. You know, you one of the things pro shop. One of the things that that you was always vital and important to you was that the I-20 corridor and the development going on in our I-20 corridor. It's just great to see that. So I think it's neat to think that you know, in 10 years you're going to be able to come to Abilene and go to the Bass Pro shop and buy a Mercedes and Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:24

Go to two new rec centers and all that.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

Two rec centers, yeah. Well, my family loves the rec centers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:29

Yeah. And fly in to uh potentially a brand new looking airport. Yeah, that'll be great. It's gonna be direct flight to Denver. I mean, there's yeah, Phoenix, I think, comes on this month or next month, June.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Uh it was June 6th. I I don't I don't know exactly. I don't know if it's I didn't hear if it started yet. It may have been delayed a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Okay. Well, and then the good one to end on is uh Cyprus Plaza ribbon cutting, I think is tomorrow Tuesday at 4 p.m. So I'll see you there, right? Yeah. I'll see you. I I watch the progress right out of my office window every day, so it's been great. But all right. Well, I think that's a good note to end on. I mean, I think the the takeaway is we've got challenges, we've got some some growing pains, but the direction that we're headed is kind of awesome. And I think that um it's important maybe not to lose yourself into the complaints or the struggles right now. Yes, we need to address them, but we also need to remember great things are happening, the rec centers, uh the airport expansion, the the Bass Pro, all these kind of things are happening, and I think those are we need to remember those in order to balance out. So I I'm I love my time on council. I love serving with you uh and and I was very proud of of my time spent on there and and really where we're headed as a city. Um and I think it's important for us to get the word out of how good things are, and so I love that you are kind of sharing the same passion of getting the word out and and making sure that the the story of Abilene is told with all the facts and and with the with the entire picture and not just those complaining. I think you guys are doing a good job. So thank you for being on the show. Well, that's mutual. Thank you.